Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106

02/24/2005 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS


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08:03:05 AM Start
08:04:00 AM Oversight Hearing: Alaska Coastal Management Program
10:02:36 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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+ Alaska Coastal Management Plan TELECONFERENCED
Oversight Hearing
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                           
                       February 24, 2005                                                                                        
                           8:03 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Paul Seaton, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Carl Gatto, Vice Chair                                                                                           
Representative Jim Elkins                                                                                                       
Representative Jay Ramras                                                                                                       
Representative Berta Gardner                                                                                                    
Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
OVERSIGHT: ALASKA COASTAL MANAGEMENT PLAN                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL JEFFRESS, Director                                                                                                         
Office of Project Management and Permitting                                                                                     
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified to the disagreement between the                                                                   
federal Office of Ocean and Coastal Resource Management (OCRM)                                                                  
and the state of Alaska.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
TOM IRWIN, Commissioner                                                                                                         
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Testified  to  the  future  of  the  Alaska                                                               
Coastal Management Program.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RANDY BATES, Deputy Director                                                                                                    
Office of Project Management and Permitting                                                                                     
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Described  the  implementation  process  of                                                               
House Bill 191.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TOM LOHMAN                                                                                                                      
North Slope Borough                                                                                                             
Barrow, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Described  frustrations  with   the  state                                                               
regarding  the  Alaska   Coastal  Management  Program,  including                                                               
changing mandates and taking away local control.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PETER FREER                                                                                                                     
Planning Supervisor                                                                                                             
City and Borough of Juneau                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT: Testified  against the  administration's new                                                               
Coastal Management  Program, saying it  takes the heart  and soul                                                               
out of it with a severe curtailment of enforceable policies.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GLEN ALSWORTH, Mayor                                                                                                            
Lake and Peninsula Borough                                                                                                      
King Salmon, Alaska                                                                                                             
POSITION  STATEMENT: Testified  against the  administration's new                                                               
Coastal  Management Program,  because  DNR  excludes fresh  water                                                               
lakes out takes away local control and input.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DAN BEVINGTON, Former Coastal District Coordinator                                                                              
Kenai Peninsula Borough                                                                                                         
POSITION  STATEMENT:  Testified  that  the  administration's  new                                                               
Coastal  Management Program  is confusing  and limits  local pro-                                                               
active involvement.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JOHN OSCAR, Program Director                                                                                                    
Cenaliulriit Coastal Resource Service Area                                                                                      
Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta                                                                                                           
POSITION  STATEMENT: Testified  against the  administration's new                                                               
Coastal   Management  Program   because  DNR   eliminated  mining                                                               
projects from  the ACMP, and  the local  people who are  the most                                                               
affected will lose their influence.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
THEDE  TOBISH,  Senior   Environmental  Planner/Coastal  District                                                               
Coordinator                                                                                                                     
Department of Community Planning and Development                                                                                
Municipality of Anchorage                                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION   STATEMENT:   Testified   to  the   problems   of   the                                                               
implementation  of House  Bill 191,  including  the exclusion  of                                                               
Anchorage's extensive wetland management program.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
KAROL KOLEHMAINEN, Program Director                                                                                             
Aleutians West Coastal Resource Service Area                                                                                    
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION    STATEMENT:   Testified    in   opposition    to   the                                                               
administration's  position  on   the  Alaska  Coastal  Management                                                               
Program because  it is  inconsistent and there  appears to  be no                                                               
place for local policy.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  PAUL  SEATON  called  the  House  State  Affairs  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at 8:03:05  AM.  Present at  the call                                                             
to  order  were  Representatives   Gatto,  Elkins,  Gardner,  and                                                               
Seaton.   Representatives  Ramras  and Gruenberg  arrived as  the                                                               
meeting was in progress.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
^OVERSIGHT HEARING: ALASKA COASTAL MANAGEMENT PROGRAM                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:04:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  announced that the  only order of business  was the                                                               
oversight  hearing  on  the  Alaska  Coastal  Management  Program                                                               
(ACMP).                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON said  the purpose of the meeting is  to overview the                                                               
implementation of a  statute signed into law in  2003, House Bill                                                               
191.   There  have been  reports of  problems, he  said, and  the                                                               
committee is  not rehashing the  bill, but  wants to look  at its                                                               
implementation.   There  are a  couple of  bills currently  being                                                               
addressed to consider this matter,  he added, and the legislature                                                               
needs  to  know   some  background  to  determine   if  this  new                                                               
legislation is necessary.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:07:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BILL  JEFFRESS,  Director,  Office   of  Project  Management  and                                                               
Permitting,  Department  of  Natural Resources  (DNR),  said  the                                                               
governor  wrote a  letter and  a  press release  responding to  a                                                               
letter  to the  state  of Alaska  from the  Office  of Ocean  and                                                               
Coastal Resource Management (OCRM).   The letter from OCRM, which                                                               
is  under the  National  Oceanic  and Atmospheric  Administration                                                               
(NOAA),  was dated  January 28,  2005.   The governor's  response                                                               
highlights   the   frustration   that  the   administration   has                                                               
encountered in  negotiations with OCRM regarding  its approval of                                                               
the  state's amended  Alaska Coastal  Management Program  (ACMP).                                                               
He said,   "After months of negotiation at  a continuously moving                                                               
target presented by  OCRM, we have unfortunately  reached a point                                                               
where  the  state  of  Alaska   can  no  longer  subrogate  state                                                               
sovereignty  in  our  ability to  manage  our  natural  resources                                                               
through a federal agency such as OCRM for a voluntary program."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS  referred to the  letter [included in  the committee                                                               
packet]  saying OCRM  contends that  Alaska's environmental  laws                                                               
and regulations are inadequate to  protect coastal resources.  He                                                               
said  that  OCRM  also  contends   that  other  federal  resource                                                               
agencies  have  laws  and  regulations   that  do  not  meet  the                                                               
standards  of  OCRM, "which  cascades  far  beyond the  authority                                                               
granted by  the federal Coastal  Zone Management Act."   The OCRM                                                               
letter requires the Department of  Natural Resources (DNR) to add                                                               
redundant  regulations  and complexity  to  a  program without  a                                                               
corresponding  environmental  benefit,  he  said.    "This  is  a                                                               
state's  rights  issue."    He  noted  that  there  was  an  OCRM                                                               
statement  recently   received  by  the  state   that  he  hasn't                                                               
reviewed.  He said, "This  is indicative of our relationship with                                                               
NOAA,  rather than  responding to  the administration  - or  even                                                               
copying  the administration  with  this document  -  it was  sent                                                               
directly to the  House of Representatives."  The  opinion of OCRM                                                               
is  neither   valid  nor  supported   by  the   federal  enabling                                                               
legislation, he opined.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:10:54 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  said there  is  joint  responsibility between  the                                                               
House State  Affairs Standing Committee  and the  House Resources                                                               
Standing  Committee for  this overview,  and  the two  committees                                                               
decided that  the House State  Affairs Standing  Committee should                                                               
do it.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:11:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TOM IRWIN,  Commissioner, Department of Natural  Resources, noted                                                               
his appreciation  that Kurt  Fredriksson, Acting  Commissioner of                                                               
the  Department   of  Environmental   Conservation,  is   in  the                                                               
audience.   Commissioner  Irwin  directed attention  to a  letter                                                               
[included in  the committee  packet], which he  said was  sent to                                                               
all Alaskans and was written by four commissioners.  He                                                                         
highlighted a portion of the letter, which read as follows                                                                      
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The  State  of Alaska  is  committed  to ensuring  that                                                                    
     resources  of  the  state are  adequately  managed  and                                                                    
     protected.  As  part of that commitment,  the State has                                                                    
     been   implementing  the   Alaska  Coastal   Management                                                                    
     Program  (ACMP)  since 1979.    The  ACMP, a  voluntary                                                                    
     program funded  and authorized in part  by the National                                                                    
     Oceanic  and  Atmospheric  Administration  (NOAA),  had                                                                    
     broad  authority  to  address  a  variety  of  resource                                                                    
     management issues.  While the  ACMP served an important                                                                    
     purpose when it  was created, it has  languished in the                                                                    
     past several  years without the  needed updates  to its                                                                    
     purpose  and  policies.   This  resulted  in  the  ACMP                                                                    
     becoming fragmented  in its  implementation, subjective                                                                    
     in  its  application,   and  an  additional  regulatory                                                                    
     burden   within  an   already  comprehensive   resource                                                                    
     management  system.   As a  result, projects  have been                                                                    
     unnecessarily    delayed   without    a   corresponding                                                                    
     environmental benefit.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     To  modernize the  ACMP, the  Alaska State  Legislature                                                                    
     and  Administration  passed  House Bill  191  in  2003.                                                                    
     This directed  State agencies  to amend  the ACMP  in a                                                                    
     manner that  simplified and  clarified the  25-year old                                                                    
     program.   The State  agencies have worked  hard toward                                                                    
     developing  a program  that  meets  the priorities  and                                                                    
     needs  of   Alaska  while  still   comprehensively  and                                                                    
     responsibly   managing   Alaska's  coastal   uses   and                                                                    
     resources.  Unfortunately,  NOAA, the federal approving                                                                    
     agency, has in their  January 28, 2005 letter, mandated                                                                    
     that the  ACMP expand  its broad  regulatory authority,                                                                    
     regardless   of    its   duplication    and   increased                                                                    
     complexity,  and  refuses  to acknowledge  the  State's                                                                    
     rights in  developing a program that  works for Alaska.                                                                    
     NOAA's mandate  and attempt  to further  expand federal                                                                    
     control over  Alaska through coastal management  is not                                                                    
     acceptable.    Without  a   change  in  NOAA's  current                                                                    
     position, the  ACMP will expire  in the summer  of 2005                                                                    
     by operation of law.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:13:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER   IRWIN    said   DNR   clearly    understands   its                                                               
accountability to the legislature.  The department had a clear                                                                  
directive to  proceed and  has worked  hard "in  that direction."                                                               
He added  that his  staff has been  spending nights  and weekends                                                               
responding  to   letters  and  jumping  through   hoops  to  meet                                                               
timelines  to  honor  the  wishes  of  the  legislature  and  the                                                               
administration.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER IRWIN  stated the  four commissioners  feel strongly                                                               
that Alaska  is protected.  He  said, "We can and  do protect the                                                               
resources  of this  state  and certainly  the  environment."   He                                                               
added that  DNR, as  a business  accountable to  the legislature,                                                               
has worked  hard getting  oil companies  and mining  companies to                                                               
the  state and  helping the  timber industry  survive.   He said,                                                               
"Adding  to the  duplication  that NOAA  is asking  us  to do  is                                                               
exactly the  wrong message that you  folks told us to  go do when                                                               
this bill  was passed."   Commissioner Irwin asked  the committee                                                               
to keep in mind the real message that is being sent.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:15:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS said:                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The  implementation of  [House Bill]  191 is  linked to                                                                    
     the  OCRM federal  approval process,  and  it has  been                                                                    
     greatly  influenced  by  the  directives  and  guidance                                                                    
     provided  by   OCRM  under  the  umbrella   of  program                                                                    
     "approvability."   DNR and OCRM maintained  a very open                                                                    
     and  continuous  dialogue  once   House  Bill  191  was                                                                    
     introduced  and  EO  [Executive Order]  106,  and  that                                                                    
     communication continued  through March  and May.   OCRM                                                                    
     reviewed House  Bill 191 and provided  edits related to                                                                    
     ACMP "approvability,"  so they  have been part  of this                                                                    
     process from  day one.   The effective  date of  EO 106                                                                    
     was April  15, 2003;  that effectively  transferred the                                                                    
     coastal program  and the staff  from the Office  of the                                                                    
     Governor to  DNR.   This is where  some of  the hurdles                                                                    
     really started.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JEFFRESS  noted that  the  employees  within the  governor's                                                               
office  were  exempt and,  once  they  moved  to  DNR, it  was  a                                                               
classified  system, thus,  new position  descriptions  had to  be                                                               
written, and  staff had  to reapply for  the positions  that they                                                               
currently held.   Through attrition and cuts there  was a vacancy                                                               
rate of  47 percent, he  said.  It took  quite awhile to  get the                                                               
department re-staffed,  he stated,  but very few  projects missed                                                               
their timeline.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:18:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JEFFRESS  said due  to  staffing  shortfalls the  regulatory                                                               
revision process  required by  House Bill  191 was  delayed until                                                               
October 2003  when DNR hired a  contractor to revise 6  AEC 50, 6                                                               
AEC 80,  and 6 AEC  85.  The  department also established  a work                                                               
group  with   several  of  the  coastal   districts,  many  state                                                               
agencies,  and  OCRM  staff,  the  latter  of  which  provided  a                                                               
comprehensive review of  the revised regulations, he  added.  DNR                                                               
held two coastal work groups  in December 2003, one in Anchorage,                                                               
and one in Juneau.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:19:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS said during meetings  with OCRM a three-step process                                                               
for program approval  was created:  to submit EO  106, House Bill                                                               
191, House  Bill 86,  and House  Bill 69 to  OCRM for  review; to                                                               
submit  the  revised  regulations;  and  to  submit  the  coastal                                                               
districts' revised  plans, which must  first be approved  by DNR.                                                               
Staffing shortfalls didn't allow DNR  to complete phase one until                                                               
January 2004.   In February  2004 DNR's revised  regulations went                                                               
out for  public notice, he  said, and  OCRM made the  decision to                                                               
wait until the  regulations were implemented and  then go through                                                               
the review  process of both  the regulations and  the legislation                                                               
together.  The  department didn't want that,  but they proceeded,                                                               
he said.   The revised  regulations had a 45-day  comment period,                                                               
and they became effective on July 1, 2004, he noted.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:21:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  asked if  that  was  "the communication  from  the                                                               
federal government that said that  this could not be considered a                                                               
minor  plan amendment  and  had to  be a  major  revision of  the                                                               
plan."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:22:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JEFFRESS answered  yes, with  the legislation  combined with                                                               
the revised  regulations "they  then considered  that as  a major                                                               
amendment, where  previously they had  said that if  we submitted                                                               
them in  the three steps they  would be reviewed and  approved as                                                               
routine program change."   He added that DNR  found areas needing                                                               
clarification after  the revisions  were made,  including Section                                                               
112  of the  revised regulations,  which went  out to  notice for                                                               
comment  on August  9.    On October  29  the regulations  became                                                               
effective.    During this  period,  DNR  was preparing  amendment                                                               
packets for  submittal to OCRM, and  OCRM told DNR not  to submit                                                               
them until  the final revisions  to the packet were  complete and                                                               
adopted.    So,   on  September  30,  2004,   DNR  submitted  the                                                               
revisions, the  amendment, and the  new project  descriptions, he                                                               
said.  It  was still not decided whether  an environmental impact                                                               
statement or an environmental assessment would be required.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:24:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS  said since September  30, DNR has gone  through two                                                               
revisions and worked  endless hours to revise the  program to fit                                                               
the mandates  established by OCRM.   These negotiations continued                                                               
up until  a week before OCRM's  January 28 letter, he  added, and                                                               
DNR was surprised  by the letter, because DNR had  thought it had                                                               
made  substantial progress.   The  letter informed  DNR that  the                                                               
OCRM rescinded  some of its agreements  with DNR.  He  said, "So,                                                               
we  actually  lost  ground, and  they're  expanding  the  program                                                               
beyond  where it  was  even  prior to  [House  Bill]  191."   Mr.                                                               
Jeffress  said DNR  is still  trying to  keep communication  with                                                               
OCRM and is  surprised that it chose to respond  to the committee                                                               
and not even  "copy the administration on this."   He added, "But                                                               
this is  ... an indication to  you how they've been  dealing with                                                               
us."                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:25:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS said House Bill  191 did not require a comprehensive                                                               
rewrite of  the coastal  district plans.   The department  sent a                                                               
letter to  the districts advising  them that if they  didn't have                                                               
the  time or  resources it  was their  decision whether  to do  a                                                               
comprehensive  rewrite  or  just  address  the  issues  of  local                                                               
concern that would  allow them to submit their  plan for approval                                                               
by  DNR, he  stated.   He added  that there  is nothing  in DNR's                                                               
regulations  or  House Bill  191  that  would prevent  them  from                                                               
future   revisions  of   their   plans   to  include   additional                                                               
enforceable  policies.    One of  DNR's  frustrations  in  giving                                                               
guidance to  the districts is  the "ever-changing  landscape that                                                               
OCRM has provided us," he concluded.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:27:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  said  the  committee   is  not  here  to  say  the                                                               
department  has  not  worked  hard;  the  question  is  with  the                                                               
changing  landscape that  DNR has  been faced  with and  if House                                                               
Bill 191 gives adequate timelines  to the districts for rewriting                                                               
their plans.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:28:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BETH KERTTULA,  Alaska  State Legislature,  asked                                                               
about  the districts  being able  to submit  "something" to  meet                                                               
deadlines, but if it is just a  list or a stop gap measure, won't                                                               
it leave the status of the  program in limbo and be confusing for                                                               
people getting permits?                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:29:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JEFFRESS said  the districts  were allowed  time to  develop                                                               
enforceable policies, and there  have been numerous amendments to                                                               
those plans  over the years  through the regulatory body.   House                                                               
Bill  191 called  for no  duplication or  redundancy in  existing                                                               
laws.   He noted that since  1979 there has been  a huge increase                                                               
in the  number of  environmental regulations  at the  federal and                                                               
state level.  Many areas  weren't adequately covered in 1979 that                                                               
are now,  including:  air, land,  and water quality.   He stated,                                                               
"All  the  federal agencies  have  matured  and implemented  [the                                                               
National  Environmental Policy  Act  of 1969  (NEPA)]  - in  some                                                               
cases  to the  extreme -  so  that the  resources are  adequately                                                               
covered."  He continued as follows:                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Now, if there  is an area ... [where]  a local district                                                                    
     feels  ...  there  is   inadequate  coverage  and  [the                                                                    
     district]  can demonstrate  to DNR  -  on the  criteria                                                                    
     that's set forth in [House Bill]  191 - that there is a                                                                    
     hole there and that  there's an enforceable policy that                                                                    
     meets  local  concern,  or  they  have  the  scientific                                                                    
     evidence to demonstrate this needs  to be covered, then                                                                    
     those  are the  areas  that  we ask  them  to focus  on                                                                    
     first.   If  it's a  question of  a resource  not being                                                                    
     protected --  I mean,  this is one  of the  things that                                                                    
     you  mandated with  [House Bill]  191, that  it not  be                                                                    
     redundant.   And  even before  [House Bill]  191, there                                                                    
     was Senate Bill  308 that was passed in  2002 that also                                                                    
     mandated that the districts revise  their plans so that                                                                    
     they  don't  duplicate  or  restate  state  or  federal                                                                    
     policies.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS said that DNR directed  the districts to either do a                                                               
comprehensive rewrite or just pick  the areas most vital to their                                                               
own  district and  address those  issues.   Later, after  July 1,                                                               
2005, if additional resources are  available, they can do further                                                               
rewrites.   However, the districts  must demonstrate to  DNR that                                                               
there  isn't  an  existing  state   or  federal  regulation  that                                                               
adequately addresses  their area  of concern.   He  said, "That's                                                               
what we're  all looking for  is a simple  area that we  can point                                                               
somebody  to  comply with  this  federal  or  state law  and  the                                                               
resources protected."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:33:35 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked how many districts have done this.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:33:48 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS said Randy Bates can provide details.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
8:34:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked  Mr. Jeffress if he had  said that DNR                                                               
asked  the federal  government to  point to  an area  that lacked                                                               
regulation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:34:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JEFFRESS  clarified that  DNR  asked  the districts  not  to                                                               
duplicate  existing regulations  when  writing their  enforceable                                                               
policies.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked  if it wouldn't be easier  to point to                                                               
and address  the law or  regulation that already  exists, instead                                                               
of finding an area where the law doesn't exist.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS said  the Campbell Group put together a  matrix.  He                                                               
remarked  that there  has been  a plethora  of regulations  since                                                               
1979, and he  thinks it is very easy to  determine whether it's a                                                               
water quality issue and if there's  a standard involved.  He said                                                               
there  are  laws  with  broad coverage  like  the  Marine  Mammal                                                               
Protection Act, and if a district  sees a specific point of local                                                               
concern that  the act doesn't  address, the department  leaves it                                                               
up to that district, "because  they know their situation."  Staff                                                               
is  always  available to  direct  districts  while writing  their                                                               
enforceable policies, he said.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:38:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RANDY BATES,  Deputy Director, Office  of Project  Management and                                                               
Permitting,  Department  of  Natural   Resources,  said  he  will                                                               
briefly  explain DNR's  process  of the  implementation of  House                                                               
Bill 191.  He said DNR  has taken steps to involve all interested                                                               
parties.   In October 2003 it  hired the Campbell Group  to draft                                                               
regulations,  and DNR  put together  the Regulations  Review Team                                                               
with  representation  from  state  agencies,  coastal  districts,                                                               
industry, and the  environmental community.  The  team had weekly                                                               
meetings for two months.  He  said that DNR also held conferences                                                               
in  Juneau   and  Anchorage  to  engage   dialogue  with  coastal                                                               
districts.   DNR  created draft  regulations for  discussion with                                                               
the districts, took comments, and  went back and created a formal                                                               
packet.  It then  went out for a 45-day public  review, and a lot                                                               
of comments came  in.  After considering  comments, DNR submitted                                                               
the revised regulations that went into effect in July 2004.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:43:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BATES  said DNR  held  a  three-day district  conference  in                                                               
Anchorage  to  go  over  the  regulations  and  then  held  eight                                                               
teleconferences  since  July  to   offer  assistance  in  writing                                                               
policy.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
8:44:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  said the committee  wants to focus on  the problems                                                               
that the  districts are  finding, and  it has  no issue  with how                                                               
much effort DNR has made.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
8:45:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BATES  said that of  the 35  coastal districts in  Alaska, 33                                                               
have  coastal district  plans in  effect,  and 27  of those  have                                                               
committed to  revising their coastal  plans to comply  with House                                                               
Bill 191.  Of that 27, 25  have hired consultants to do the plans                                                               
for  them.   DNR  has  currently  reviewed  draft plans  for  the                                                               
Aleutians  West  coastal  resource service  area,  the  Ketchikan                                                               
Gateway Borough,  the City of Craig,  and the City of  Valdez - 4                                                               
of the 27 that DNR expects to receive.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:47:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TOM  LOHMAN, North  Slope Borough,  said the  people at  DNR have                                                               
worked  hard taking  on  the  task of  House  Bill  191, but  the                                                               
districts felt DNR's timeline was  "unreasonable from the get-go,                                                               
largely because the  state was pushing the change  in the program                                                               
as  a routine  program change,  and on  its face  it was  clearly                                                               
something more  than that."   He  added that  it was  obvious the                                                               
process for  approval was going  to be longer than  envisioned by                                                               
House Bill 191.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHMAN said that the  North Slope Borough started its coastal                                                               
zone management process  in 1983, and it was passed  in 1988.  It                                                               
is not an easy  process to get a plan approved.   There are eight                                                               
villages in  the North Slope  Borough, and the oil  industry does                                                               
not sit  on the  sidelines when  a resource  plan is  created, he                                                               
noted.   The  borough got  one  of the  bigger grants  to do  the                                                               
revision, but it's still not enough, he stated.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
8:50:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHMAN said  the reason the borough exists is  to protect the                                                               
Inupiat subsistence culture, and all  policies reflect that.  The                                                               
borough wants to know whether  it can craft policies dealing with                                                               
subsistence, including the  land and water where  it takes place.                                                               
House Bill  191 was the  administration's bill, and  "the initial                                                               
drafts did away  with the program altogether - did  away with the                                                               
ability of local  communities to craft any policies at  all."  It                                                               
was legislative hearings like this  that put back some ability of                                                               
the communities  to craft  policy, he noted.   The  borough asked                                                               
the  administration  directly  if  it  could  craft  policies  on                                                               
subsistence and  for the outer  continental shelf (OCS),  and the                                                               
administration said  absolutely yes.   Then,  as showed  on DNR's                                                               
web site, those policies were no longer approvable.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
8:52:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHMAN said the issue of  federal lands and waters involves a                                                               
wrinkle that deals with designations.   He said in order to apply                                                               
a state policy,  an area needs to be designated  as a subsistence                                                               
area  or special  habitat area,  and OCRM  has said  that federal                                                               
lands  and waters  cannot  be designated.    Areas available  for                                                               
subsistence,  like  bowhead whaling,  cannot  have  a policy,  he                                                               
noted.   There is no clarity  in the districts, and  they have no                                                               
idea how  to deal  with it.   He  said they  need more  time; the                                                               
North  Slope Borough  is not  going to  meet its  deadline.   The                                                               
borough cannot go  out to the villages and get  public input, and                                                               
the ACMP is  very important, he stressed.  Mr.  Lohman added that                                                               
the language  in the bill  is unclear,  and it is  ludicrous that                                                               
the intent of the bill is to create clarity.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:56:28 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHMAN  said the consultants  were under pressure,  and there                                                               
was not  the give-and-take that  the districts would  have liked.                                                               
There are countless  issues that the consultants  don't have time                                                               
to  address.   "If there  is clarity  today -  and I  don't think                                                               
there  is -  we've got  four months  before July  1, and  we have                                                               
internal processes that back up three  or four or five months off                                                               
of that."   He said, "We love  the oil industry, we  just want to                                                               
make sure they do their job  in a way that allows the subsistence                                                               
culture, the Inupiat people, to  be preserved."  Working with the                                                               
oil  industry is  not  a  quick process  because  they have  very                                                               
strong concerns and opinions, he said.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:57:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOHMAN  remarked on  the  governor's  letter where  he  said                                                               
"Alaskans  should make  these kinds  of decisions  for Alaskans,"                                                               
but  apparently  that  philosophy  stops in  Juneau,  he  opined.                                                               
"This added  hurdle of  having to  designate an  area -  which we                                                               
can't  do on  federal lands  or waters  - in  order to  apply the                                                               
state subsistence  standard and  write policies  on subsistence--                                                               
we're not sure what's left," he said.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
8:59:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked  if the North Slope Borough  is unsure whether                                                               
it can write  an enforceable policy dealing  with subsistence and                                                               
habitat.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
8:59:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHMAN  said he  is unsure regarding  federal land  or water.                                                               
There  are  people   who  believe  we  cannot   extend  our  land                                                               
management regulations, Title 29, to federal lands or waters.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:00:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON said  that the old ACMP allows  districts to comment                                                               
and create enforceable policies for federal lands and waters.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:00:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHMAN said it does but the  program is not perfect.  He said                                                               
the  vagaries  of  the  program  turned out  to  be  one  of  its                                                               
strengths because it brings the  industry to our table very early                                                               
in the process.  He said [the  industry] wants to know:  "How are                                                               
you  going to  interpret  this when  we come  down  to a  review?                                                               
Let's work it out now."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:01:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked how much time would be adequate.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:02:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOHMAN  answered that  there needs to  be clarity  before the                                                               
approval process begins.   Absent that, he said he  would like to                                                               
see a one-year delay.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:03:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PETER  FREER, Planning  Supervisor, City  and Borough  of Juneau,                                                               
said he supervises  staff who work directly with  ACMP.  Juneau's                                                               
coastal management plan was adopted  in 1987, after several years                                                               
of development,  because Juneau took  it seriously and  wanted it                                                               
to  accurately reflect  areas to  be  protected and  areas to  be                                                               
developed.   Two  important parts  of Juneau's  plan include  the                                                               
identification  of  special  waterfront districts  that  received                                                               
pre-approval  for   development,  and  the   wetlands  management                                                               
program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:05:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FREER said  there is  a severe  curtailment of  the kind  of                                                               
enforceable policies  Juneau can write,  which are the  heart and                                                               
the  soul of  the  plan.   Juneau's  current  plan  has about  80                                                               
enforceable policies, and the most  important are the habitat and                                                               
coastal  development  policies.    Juneau believes  it  would  be                                                               
severely cut back,  he said.  This is an  important local control                                                               
issue, and it  gives districts a seat at the  table.  He stressed                                                               
the benefit of coordinating with  other interested parties during                                                               
the ACMP review process.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:07:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FREER said  Juneau  is  being rushed  and  the whole  public                                                               
participation  component is  circumscribed.   He  said he  agrees                                                               
with Mr. Lohman  regarding a one-year delay for  the submittal of                                                               
district plans, because, "Why do this twice?"                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:09:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON   said  the  committee   is  concerned   about  the                                                               
disruption of  coordinating elements  of the  consistency review,                                                               
and he asked if Juneau  has adopted the enforceable policies into                                                               
ordinance for the borough.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:09:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FREER answered yes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:10:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked if  that would  make it an  extra step  for a                                                               
developer to get approval from the  City and Borough of Juneau if                                                               
it is no longer covered under ACMP.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:10:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FREER answered yes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:10:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  suggested it  is  a  difficult task  to                                                               
rewrite the  ACMP, and she  asked if  OCRM has been  changing its                                                               
guidance to the districts.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:11:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FREER said  he has observed from the district  level that the                                                               
guidance from  DNR has been  evolving and changing "to  the point                                                               
where the time  we have gotten to prepare a  plan has collapsed."                                                               
He said  he hasn't dealt  directly with OCRM, but  his impression                                                               
is that the January 28 letter  from OCRM to DNR was simply OCRM's                                                               
assessment  of  DNR's submittal  and  not  a factor  of  changing                                                               
guidance.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:12:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GLEN ALSWORTH,  Mayor, Lake and  Peninsula Borough,  King Salmon,                                                               
said, as  an example, the  disposal of dredge spoil  policy under                                                               
the  current ACMP  will be  significantly watered  down with  the                                                               
changes, and  it is taking  away local  control.  The  borough is                                                               
comprised of 18  communities and all are on either  lake or salt-                                                               
water shoreline.   Mr.  Alsworth also gave  an example  of losing                                                               
control over navigation obstructions.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:16:37 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ALLSWORTH stated  that ACMP  has  been very  helpful to  the                                                               
borough,  and  it spent  five  years  writing the  last  program,                                                               
holding  meetings in  all  18 communities.    Public process  and                                                               
local  input is  important,  he  said.   A  critical concern,  he                                                               
stressed,  is that  the revised  regulations exclude  fresh water                                                               
lakes, which  are vital to  the citizens'  subsistence lifestyle;                                                               
removal of fresh  water is the same as removing  the Great Lakes,                                                               
he said, and there would be  no local input on the development of                                                               
these  important  shorelines.   The  current  coastal  management                                                               
program  provides a  vital tool  for managing  our resources,  he                                                               
said,  and  many  policies are  interwoven  through  the  borough                                                               
ordinances.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:21:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. ALLSWORTH agrees with delaying the deadline by a year.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:22:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAN  BEVINGTON,   Former  Coastal  District   Coordinator,  Kenai                                                               
Peninsula Borough (KPB),  said KPB has written  12 ordinances and                                                               
25  resolutions  in support  of  the  ACMP  over  the years.    A                                                               
significant enforceable  policy affected  by the revision  is the                                                               
mitigation policy,  in which KPB  has been very successful.   The                                                               
revision eliminates  that policy.   He said, "It  really reflects                                                               
the  management intent  of the  state's changes"  to limit  local                                                               
pro-active involvement.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:24:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEVINGTON  said the current  program brings KPB to  the table                                                               
and  ensures  that local  concerns  are  considered.   The  state                                                               
doesn't  have that  comprehensive  view,  he said.    He gave  an                                                               
example of  a boulder removal  project on the shoreline  in which                                                               
the state did not factor in local concerns.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:26:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEVINGTON said  his main problem is confusion,  and it's been                                                               
disheartening to hear  the administration saying, "You  do it our                                                               
way  or  get out."    He  stated  that  the districts  have  been                                                               
faithful to  the state and they  are being painted as  holding up                                                               
the  bus.   He  said  the timeline  was  not  provided with  much                                                               
forethought,  and  he  agrees that  the  deadline  should  extend                                                               
beyond the  OCRM approval so that  it will be known  exactly what                                                               
the process is going to entail.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:29:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  OSCAR,  Program  Director,  Cenaliulriit  Coastal  Resource                                                               
Service Area  (CCRSA), said the  CCRSA serves 38 villages  in the                                                               
Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta.   He said  the district is  more dependent                                                               
on  renewable  resources  than anywhere  in  the  United  States.                                                               
Subsistence is essential to the  Yupik people, and they fervently                                                               
believe   in  the   wise  use   of  the   resources  for   future                                                               
sustainability,  but  the  new requirements  make  it  uncertain.                                                               
Mining policies  were taken out  in these regulations,  and there                                                               
are several  mining projects in the  region.  He asked  what this                                                               
would mean  to the potential impact  of mining or large  sand and                                                               
gravel  extractions  near  subsistence resources,  and  how  much                                                               
influence  the  [new]  regulations   would  provide  "those  most                                                               
affected  in the  decision-making."   House  Bill  191 leaves  an                                                               
unpredictable future  for the people,  and, he said,  the ability                                                               
of local people to comment on  mining "has been taken away and is                                                               
no longer  our concern."   Cenaliulriit has only one  first class                                                               
city, twenty-five  second class  cities, and twelve  tribally run                                                               
communities.  These communities use  the ACMP to address resource                                                               
protection and  subsistence because  they do not  have ordinances                                                               
relating to  those issues,  he stated.   The  ACMP is  their only                                                               
avenue.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:32:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OSCAR said  locals have had very little influence  on the new                                                               
plan.   He  also  noted that  the new  regulations  are not  well                                                               
defined, and he must translate them  in Yupik and share them with                                                               
the 38  villages.  He  said the  people are also  concerned about                                                               
decisions that  are "bases  on bias" and  made behind  desks that                                                               
are  hundreds of  miles away.   He  added that  he would  have to                                                               
travel  over "5,000  air  miles  in my  district  to explain  the                                                               
project and acquire  support to the new regulations  that may not                                                               
sit  well with  them."   The  short  timeline guarantees  failure                                                               
because of the vastness of the region, he said.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:35:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. OSCAR quoted his uncle as follows:                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     My  learning  and knowledge  was  handed  down by  your                                                                    
     ancients'  ancients,  where  the  whole  group  was  as                                                                    
     important  as  one  person's  fate.    Your  children's                                                                    
     children - preservation for the  long term.  Yet today,                                                                    
     we're  threatened by  the  pervasiveness  of the  human                                                                    
     nature.   We live  in a hurried  world of  technology -                                                                    
     the clock,  and the  (indisc.) thought for  self-gain -                                                                    
     and  forget who  holds our  lives.   We are  faced with                                                                    
     written laws and regulations  that change instantly the                                                                    
     next  day from  a far-off  land, from  a few  who offer                                                                    
     promises  and  good words;  but  in  the end,  you  are                                                                    
     forgotten  when the  true face  of hidden  misdeeds and                                                                    
     false words is revealed in their crafty law.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:36:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
THEDE  TOBISH,  Senior   Environmental  Planner/Coastal  District                                                               
Coordinator,  Department of  Community Planning  and Development,                                                               
Municipality  of Anchorage,  said he  supports much  of what  has                                                               
been said.  He said Anchorage  was optimistic when House Bill 191                                                               
passed, because its plan was written  and adopted in 1980 and was                                                               
used as an  example of a plan  that needed work and  clarity.  He                                                               
said  the best  example of  an  enforceable policy  that will  be                                                               
damaged by  the ACMP revision is  Anchorage's wetlands management                                                               
plan, which  covers approximately  200 individual  wetland areas.                                                               
"We have been  variously told off and on over  the past year that                                                               
we can or cannot include these  policies, and it is very clear to                                                               
me that the  regulations now preclude the  incorporation of these                                                               
polices  in our  plan revision."    He added  that the  effective                                                               
enforcement  of   these  policies  has  been   through  the  ACMP                                                               
consistency review  process.  He  said that the  policies evolved                                                               
through  the  consistency reviews  and  led  Anchorage to  obtain                                                               
general permits  from the Army  Corps of Engineers  which allowed                                                               
the city  to issue wetland permits.   He said it  is unclear what                                                               
the loss of these policies will mean.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOBISH stated that Anchorage is  willing and ready to use its                                                               
Title 29  authorities to implement  elements of the  existing and                                                               
new ACMP plan,  but sorting it out in the  remaining time may not                                                               
be possible.  "We want to get  this correct once, but we doubt we                                                               
can with  the current timeframe," he  said.  The task  is complex                                                               
and  the  state's regulations  are  a  moving target,  he  added.                                                               
Anchorage  currently has  three  major plans  under the  approval                                                               
process and the effort required to  do the revisions is vast.  He                                                               
said he  wants more time and  wants the deadline to  be triggered                                                               
by the final adoption of the new regulations.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:41:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked about Anchorage's enforceable  policies being                                                               
adopted in ordinance and if a  developer would have to go through                                                               
an approval process in addition to the consistency review.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:42:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOBISH answered yes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:42:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KAROL  KOLEHMAINEN,  Program  Director,  Aleutians  West  Coastal                                                               
Resource  Service  Area  (AWCRSA),  stated that  AWCRSA  will  be                                                               
distributing its amended plan today,  beginning the 30-day review                                                               
period.  Prior  to the complete revision of the  ACMP, AWCRSA had                                                               
just  finished a  substantial revision  as part  of its  ten-year                                                               
review  cycle, she  said,  and that  is part  of  the reason  why                                                               
AWCRSA could  attempt to complete the  amended plan on time.   To                                                               
fulfill the requirements  of DNR, most of the policies  had to be                                                               
deleted and many more were considered wrong by DNR.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:44:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KOLEHMAINEN  said  that  aside  from  the  ACMP  consistency                                                               
reviews  AWCRSA  participates  in,  it  is  an  active  political                                                               
subdivision of the  state.  She said this year  AWCRSA is working                                                               
with the Aleutian Pribilof Island  Association and the Department                                                               
of  Commerce, Community,  & Economic  Development  to complete  a                                                               
mapping project  for the communities  of Atka and Nikolski.   She                                                               
said  those maps  are  going to  be used  by  state agencies  and                                                               
applicants  to  reduce  costs when  planning  projects  in  these                                                               
remote  communities.   She  stated,  "I  think  in light  of  the                                                               
governor's  letter   that  the   program  would  go   away,  it's                                                               
particularly significant to  recognize that the CRSA  is a viable                                                               
part of the state network."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:45:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOLEHMAINEN said inconsistency is  the biggest issue.  "Prior                                                               
to the  October workshop we  had a different  understanding where                                                               
we were headed then we did  at the conclusion of the workshop and                                                               
in  the months  that followed,"  she said.   She  noted that  the                                                               
state  has  created an  impossible  threshold  for local  coastal                                                               
districts to  address this matter  of local concern and  to write                                                               
local policy.  Ms. Kolehmainen said  there appears to be no place                                                               
for  local policy  and that  testimony  by the  state during  the                                                               
House  Bill 191  hearing was  misleading.   She noted  that seven                                                               
months ago it was understood  that districts could develop policy                                                               
where it  could be  demonstrated that  state policies  either did                                                               
not address the  issue or were not adequate to  meet local needs,                                                               
and then  later, DNR turned  around and said the  districts could                                                               
not write  policy that was  more stringent than state  or federal                                                               
standards.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:48:06 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOLEHMAINEN  said it is  important that the  coastal policies                                                               
apply to resources  and not just a designated  area.  Designation                                                               
is problematic  in a district as  big as AWCRSA without  Title 29                                                               
authority.   She  indicated that  the AWCRSA  has grave  concerns                                                               
about  the  loss  of  due  deference  and  [the]  decision-making                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:48:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOLEHMAINEN said  the new process will  result in uncertainty                                                               
for  developers,  and  AWCRSA  has serious  doubts  that  the  19                                                               
remaining  policies  will survive  DNR's  upcoming  review.   Ms.                                                               
Kolehmainen said  citizens of AWCRSA  will receive  little notice                                                               
for projects  that impact them, and  will be unable to  provide a                                                               
coordinated response, and  any response will not  be afforded due                                                               
deference.   Citizens will  lose their  status as  local experts,                                                               
and the state will lose its  ability to call upon local expertise                                                               
to understand  local needs.  Beneficial  projects, like community                                                               
mapping, may be  jettisoned.  She concluded that  the revision of                                                               
ACMP  needs to  occur  in partnership  and  retain the  important                                                               
elements.   She  said  AWCRSA has  acted in  good  faith, but  is                                                               
reluctant to continue  to invest time and resources  in an effort                                                               
that may not result in a viable program with local involvement.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:52:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked Ms. Kolehmainen  to send the draft  policy to                                                               
the committee  to review,  and he  stated his  understanding that                                                               
her  area does  not  have  Title 29  authority  and  thus has  no                                                               
alternative way to adopt enforceable policies.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:52:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOLEHMAINEN  answered that's correct.   She said the  city of                                                               
Unalaska has  a city code, but  it relies on the  ACMP to address                                                               
those issues.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  asked  if Unalaska  would  adopt  the  enforceable                                                               
policies if they were lost through the ACMP.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KOLEHMAINEN said she can't  answer that for the city; however                                                               
the city of  Unalaska is a very small part  of the Aleutians West                                                               
area, which extends 1,000 miles.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:54:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  observed  that districts  seem  to  be  expressing                                                               
confusion.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:55:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS  said he  heard that  the districts  want additional                                                               
time on  issues "where we have  not had clear guidance  from OCRM                                                               
to pass  on to the district."   He said subsistence  is the large                                                               
issue,  and it  is not  going to  be resolved  through ACMP.   He                                                               
noted that  DNR can't  get OCRM to  acknowledge that  other state                                                               
and federal  agencies "have a  hand" in subsistence issues.   The                                                               
department has  requested guidance from OCRM  on subsistence, and                                                               
their response  may make ACMP  reviews consider areas  beyond the                                                               
coastal zone, which Mr. Jeffress did  not think was the intent of                                                               
ACMP.     He   again  expressed   frustration  that   OCRM  won't                                                               
acknowledge  that there  are other  federal  agencies working  on                                                               
subsistence.  Mr. Jeffress concluded:                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Aside from those, there's a  number of other areas that                                                                    
     we've  given guidance  to the  districts that  they can                                                                    
     write  enforceable  policies  and submit  their  plans.                                                                    
     And  then -  when  this becomes  clear  to us,  through                                                                    
     additional  guidance or  policy  that we  can agree  to                                                                    
     with OCRM - ... they  can address these other issues of                                                                    
     concern.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:57:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  offered his  understanding that  DNR's frustrations                                                               
are similar to those of  the districts; the districts frustration                                                               
is  related to  "not wanting  to write,  and rewrite,  and revise                                                               
each time there's a new interpretation."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:58:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  quoted the  governor's letter:   "Therefore                                                               
if OCRM  does not  immediately abandon  the new  requirements ...                                                               
the ACMP will expire by operation  of law in the summer of 2005."                                                               
Representative Gatto asked, "Is that what we're on track to do?"                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:58:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS replied:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     The old standards - 6 AAC  80 - were extended until the                                                                    
     federal  approval of  our program.   Without  those new                                                                    
     standards being approved  - 11 AAC 112 -  we don't have                                                                    
     federally  approved standards  that can  be implemented                                                                    
     in federal consistency.   Eighty-five to ninety percent                                                                    
     of our  consistency reviews concern a  federal activity                                                                    
     or a federal authorization.   And this is where we have                                                                    
     the problem  with a major  portion of our  program; our                                                                    
     consistency reviews  would sunset.   What  we're trying                                                                    
     to  do,   again,  is  we   made  provisions   with  our                                                                    
     negotiations  to  modify  some of  our  regulations  at                                                                    
     their  request  -  and in  some  cases  verbatim  their                                                                    
     wording.   But they went  beyond that in the  letter of                                                                    
     January 28  to the point  where they are  dictating how                                                                    
     the  state is  to  implement and  regulate  all of  our                                                                    
     coastal resources,  well beyond  what we feel  they are                                                                    
     authorized [to do] through  the Coastal Zone Management                                                                    
     Act.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:00:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked about  the termination of  ACMP as  matter of                                                               
law,  and  asked if  the  entire  program  goes  away or  if  the                                                               
standards aren't  going to be there  to enforce.  He  told DNR to                                                               
let the legislature know if  legislation is required to terminate                                                               
ACMP.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:01:40 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  said his understanding is  that the federal                                                               
government   contributes  $2.5   million  to   "the  $4.5-million                                                               
program."  He indicated his concern regarding funding                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:02:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEFFRESS said one of the  points in the letter signed by four                                                               
commissioners is that the resources are adequately addressed.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:02:29 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
State  Affairs  Standing  Committee   meeting  was  adjourned  at                                                               
10:02:36 AM.                                                                                                                  

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